Doomsday Clock is Canon and Had Impact on Main Continuity (January 2020)
After reading Doomsday Clock #12, I decided to make posts on how the series is canon and will have an effect on continuity, and it did. Admittedly, not everything here is accurate. In fact I chose to deliberately not archive the third post since it's pretty much irrelevant and wrong. But the main point, that DDC is canon to main continuity and had impact, was true.
There are definitely a ton of continuity errors and mistakes for sure, and some things that unfortunately weren't followed up, but otherwise this story is important for Death Metal and Infinite Frontier. Scott Snyder and Joshua Williamson have referred back to and utilized it. Bendis has also said that it was what caused the Pre-Flashpoint histories in his LOSH run to pop up, and that was before Death Metal. Death Metal is technically the final solution to Rebirth, but a lot of it concludes or moves forward here. Dr. Manhattan's antics are also still the main reason for the creation of the New 52 timeline (though Pandora and Barry are still partially responsible).
The "Metaverse" as a term hasn't been used anywhere, but the idea is used. Everything in main continuity, every version of the main continuity, has happened. They're essentiality past lives reset at certain points, causing people to forget them. Now all those memories and events are restored completely. Superman Reborn restored the timeline a bit, mostly just for Superman, Doomsday Clock restored even more including the Kents, JSA and LOSH, and Death Metal did the rest, with the power Dr. Manhattan left behind playing a role in the beginning.
Links to original posts:
I have a more recent Infinite Frontier post that deals with more on how continuity/multiverse stuff works and posts slightly newer than this that talks about the stories and characters but until then, this is why...
Doomsday Clock is Canon and Had Impact on Main Continuity
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Part 1 (No Spoilers)
It’s been months since my original 4 posts in Doomsday Clock’s connections to current continuity (if you haven’t read them, click these links here , thanks again for u/Intellectual_Watcher for the nomination, I will do my best to ensure you wouldn't need to read those posts for this one however).
Since then a lot of things happened, the release of the 12th and final issue (on time and not delayed).
Now some of my theories didn’t happen, some have yet to occur. Clearly however, recent developments, including those in the final issue, firmly and definitely places it in canon and ahead of continuity.
I’ll be making 3 posts on this:
This post for Doomsday Clock being canon.
The second for its place and impact on continuity, and
Last, how continuity will match up. I’ll add edits on the top of this post once I’m finished.
I’ll likely also make a 4th post on 5G and the future events addressed in the issue.
(I will edit links in when the other posts are done).
This will be more of a non-spoiler introductory post so if you’re unconvinced by this post, then read the book and read the next post. If you already read my original posts, a lot of this will be recap, but I will include new details as well.
Now, on to:
DC Universe Rebirth
Let's start simple.
First off, Doomsday Clock is the conclusion of Rebirth. An initiative that's very important to main continuity. A lot of significant plot threads depend on Doomsday Clock.
Now of course, there are plenty of things in the Rebirth special that's been dropped or thrown away. But many are too big to do so, such as the mysteries of the older histories of the DC Universe, the forgotten stories, legacies and so much more. Furthermore, the connection between Rebirth and Doomsday Clock continues to effect the greater DC continuity even now. Most importantly the reveal on who is responsible for the current timeline is very much connected to Doomsday Clock and there has been nothing done to retcon it away.
Now, let's look at the connections of Doomsday Clock to various books right now.
Perhaps the one writer people believe disregards continuity and Rebirth the most, is Bendis. I'll talk about LOSH in the next post and YJ just aftet this but for now let's look at Superman, which has 1 huge connection to Rebirth.
Mr. Oz/ Jor-El
As you may know, Mr. Oz was a character created by Geoff Johns just before Rebirth and hinted at his identity which was later revealed by Jurgens in AC as none other than Jor-El who was saved from Krypton by Dr. Manhattan and placed in the present where he saw the darkness of Earth and grew to regret sending his son to it. Before his identity was revealed he even did things like capture many wildcards in Manhattan's plan (which we'll get into in more detail after this) and disappeared for a while after.
He's made a huge comeback in Bendis' run only to die with no closure. But the question is, did Bendis retcon away the connection to Rebirth? He made no direct mention of Dr. Manhattan's role. Some believed that he's retconned it because the characters in the book themselves believe Jor-El himself traveled through time, but obviously they would do that because no one, not the Circle, not even Superman, has a single clue to the truth.
There however is one big clue planted by Bendis or Ivan Reis in Superman #8:
Guess who that is?
In this issue, Jon recounts his time and space and points out that while on the ship looking for Earth news, he couldn't find ANYTHING not related to Superman. Yet here he is watching a black and white detective movie. Gee that looks familiar. It almost looks like...
Nathaniel Dusk
A perfect match (besides the image being mirrored since it's a holo screen viewed from behind).
As you may know, Nathaniel Dusk is detective character from two obscure mini-series from decades ago.
Why is he important? Well in Doomsday Clock, a major character in the book is Carver Colman known in the 40s-50s for his roles in various detective films. His character's name?
Nathaniel Dusk in Doomsday Clock
Could this just be a random easter egg? Maybe. But neither Bendis nor Reis have reason to put it there especially when Jon's speech almost sorts of contradict it. Unless of course this isn't an alien transmission, but a film stored in the ship. It just seems to deliberately connected otherwise.
Like I said this is more of an intro/recap post with no spoilers as much as possible for Doomday Clock himself. But to go into more detail, let's just say the actor Carver Colman does have a significant connection to Manhattan. Is it a coincidence then that the only thing on the ship besides Superman, is Nathaniel Dusk? No. In fact I believe Manhattan may have had a hand in creating that huge spaceship, something Jor-El needs a lot of resources for.
But why does he leave this in there?
For those who have read DDC, minor spoilers: this may be because of Jon's new tendency to subconsciously leave behind chronal debris as well. In fact he even subconsciously transported himself and others to a screening of one Nathaniel Dusk film in the middle of issue 7.
In the end it lines up pretty well. Bendis himself states this when it comes to Doosmday Clock in a CBR interview:
"I can speak for other creators as well -- I deeply apologize for being so vague and coy about Doomsday Clock. We're not being vague and coy about it behind the scenes. It will all line up at the end, alright? Just to make it very clear, my respect for Geoff [Johns] and Gary [Frank] goes back for decades, and this is a story they started telling before I walked in the door [at DC]. So this is not -- there's not an ounce of my body that would do anything to counter or disrespect the path that they're on. "
Another with Den of Geek:
The elements of the story are not a coincidence. All of this is done in connection to each other. [...] The truth is still there. All of the pieces of Doomsday Clock, all of the pieces of Superman, all of the pieces of Event Leviathan will all land to connect together in a beautiful way. This has all been planned.
(links and sources at the end).
I didn't get really into Leviathan but I have heard about who died and who Leviathan was. I'll deal with that and how it'll line up despite contradictions, in part 3.
And once again, I will deal with the Legion in part 2.
But enough about that. Let's look at another Bendis property:
Remember when I brought up Jor-El's prisoners? There are quite a few. Mr. Mxyzptlk is one, Doomsday was another, but there's also Tim Drake, and another Tim Drake of the Titans of Tomorrow timeline.
Titans of Tomorrow
He comes from a possible future of the main timeline. The twist? It's a future of the Pre-Flashpoint timeline.
"Who the Hell is Conner?'
It's been established in Williamsons Flash that alternate futures may not be affected by Flashpoint thanks to Hypertime. This plot thread of the Titans of Tomorrow Tim has been used in Tynion's Tec and Tomasi's Supersons.
At the end of Tynion's Tec run, Tim learns of the previous timeline Pre-Flashpoint. Connecting back to the Rebirth mystery. What does Young Justice do with it? It follows it up of course:
Pre-Flashpoint Young Justice
A flashback in the series shows that Zatanna attempted to see if Tim's mind was tampered and this lead to him getting flashes of memories including that of a team that matches Pre-Flashpoint Young Justice (with Morrison era JLA in the back).
Another Life? But NOT an Alternate Anything.
He emphasizes that this is not an alternate universe's, but HIS. How can this be? We see something similar in The Button as Barry traversed through Hypertime:
NOT Alternate Realities
"This isn't an alternate world or timeline. This is...ours."
Barry makes a point that the Pre-Crisis and even Flashpoint realities, are from their universe. It essentially was their previous lives. Like reincarnation. This is a pretty important plot point in Doomsday Clock and its introduction of the Metaverse which I will do my best to avoid spoilers on while I further discuss it later in this post.
Speaking of Flashes and Hypertime, in Flash War, Wally saw the Pre-Flashpoint timeline as well before collapsing the time steam. However, in its wake, came the return of Bart Allen.
Bart's back. Where's all his friends and family?
Not only does he fully remember Pre-Flashpoint history, unlike Wally his memories are not being replaced, so he only remembers Pre-Flashpoint.
The world isn't like the one I left behind
There's also of course Conner being back here, but the last YJ issue confirms he still has no place in the current timeline.
So clearly Bendis is not only aware of Rebirth and Doomsday Clock, he seems to be building off of it. Solicits imply the reveals relating to these mysteries are coming soon. We'll see if there are direct allusions to Doomsday Clock.
I will talk more about Wally in the next post, which requires spoilers for both Flash Forward and Doomsday Clock.
But for now let's look at the next and final part of this first post:
Well now, this probably seems like a pretty random book to include here, but there's a lot more to this.
First of all, this book is heavily connected to continuity, referencing and being driven by stories and events such as Night of the Monster Men, Suicide Squad, Event Leviathan and even the destruction of the Source Wall in Snyder and Tynion's Justice League.
Speaking of, the book's main villain's goal is to "save" the multiverse from this. His name is Melmoth, a villain from Grant Morrison's Seven Soldiers, a book that lead up to Final Crisis. Speaking of that, one of the things Melmoth needs for his plan is the Crime Bible from Final Crisis revelations. Clearly this book is very connected to others and what might come in the next Crisis.
"So what's the connection to Doomsday Clock? What obscure tiny easter egg or thin connection is there now?"
You might ask.
Well, in issue 3, Melmoth reveals an important part of his plan and why he chose to enter Earth 0/Prime Earth:
"A blue voice [said] that what happens here in the Metaverse is reflected out across the Multiverse."
Now, Melmoth "hearing" color is weird, but that's not the point. It's a clear indication on who says it. Another is that the Metaverse, a concept introduced in Doomsday Clock, is already being used by other writers. What is the Metaverse? I recommend reading Doomsday Clock to properly learn it but I will explain it in the next post.
The Metaverse, The Heart of the Multiverse
As you can see, the Metaverse here isn't an Easter Egg, it isn't something they only hint at, but are using as an important plot point for the book's story. Prime Earth IS the Metaverse. Meaning Doomsday Clock IS Canon.
So as you can see, there are quite a lot of Rebirth and Doomsday Clock connections in current continuity. Clearly the book IS Canon. You likely have more questions. Such as those on the Legion and JSA. That's what part 2 will be for, where I'll also say where I believe that the book takes place and the impact it'll have.
The next post will go all out on spoilers and such so if you haven't read Doomsday Clock yet, please do so.
See you then.
Edit:
Sources:
https://www.cbr.com/doomsday-clock-legion-of-super-heroes-relaunch-connection/
https://www.denofgeek.com/us/books/dc-entertainment/283548/secrets-dc-new-legion-of-super-heroes
Also, I made this post before the awards were announced. Thanks so much for people who voted the post. I didn't think I'd actually win I really appreciate it.
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Part 2 (Spoilers)
This is the second part of my posts on Doomsday Clock in continuity. Read the previous post if you haven’t yet. Unlike the last post this will contain spoilers for Doomsday Clock. Read the book if you haven’t as well.
You have been warned.
SPOILERS AHEAD
The last post was all about how DDC is definitely in canon in main continuity and is mostly unchanged. This one will be much more in depth and will prove:
That being said, major spoilers for the following are in this post:
Justice/Doom War, Bendis’ Superman, YJ and LOSH, Hell Arisen and of course Doomsday Clock.
I know it's been a while since 12 released. Technically it's already a different decade. I needed to do some things for the Holidays but now I'm fully committed to doing this. And yes I know that the last post was mostly stuff we already knew or I already said in those 4 posts. I needed to make sure people were up to speed as much as possible, which is why I may reiterate some stuff here as well. And yes for those who only read the last post, I will discuss the JLA and Legion.
So without further a do...
Better Late Than Never
First things first. Let's talk about the JSA. Besides Doomsday Clock, one comic that featured them prominently recently is Scott Snyder and James Tynion's Justice League, appearing at the end of JL 30:
The JSA "back"?
Sorry if this is a repeat but:
"How could this be? Aren't they not supposed to exist? Isn't Alan Scott supposed to be dead? This MUST mean DDC is non-canon or that JL is AFTER DDC!"
This isn't true, not only from what Scott and James say in their Newsrama interview.
I realized while making this that I'm mostly repeating things from my old post from last year. I don't want to copy and paste or explain it even worse, so if you want to see the interview I brought up as well as more details, please check it out here. Instead I'll make sure to focus more on new information relating to Doomsday Clock but first, quick summary:
She's NEVER mentioned a superhero team in the 1940s!
In Justice League 30, the JSA don't come back. Barry and John found them travelling through Hypertime. In part 1 of this series I elaborated on how Hypertime can be used to see previous timelines, previous iterations of the Metaverse.
In Justice League 31, the duo confirm that they DON'T remember the JSA ever existing and no one in the present does. Including Kendra, whose past life exists here, Kent Nelson, who's alive right now, and Carter Hall, also alive right now.
So what gives?
Clearly someone (cough Jon Osterman cough) altered the timeline so they didn't exist in the current one as deduced by Doctor Fate.
Altered Many Times
"Okay so Dr. Manhattan's antics are referenced. So they're canon I get it. So I guess this is after DDC and that's pretty much all the impact it'll have."
As I said, the JSA do NOT exist in the current timeline. No one, not the League, not the villains, not even members in the team that appears, remembers them or are aware of their existence. This is a Hypertime timeline. Maybe Pre-Flashpoint judging from the roster.
You know who does remember?
Lex Luthor (and maybe Perpetua). But how? Perpetua is a supercelestial cosmic being but how could Lex know? Because he was already investigating the Rebirth mystery.
Chronal Debris Footage of the JSA
Heroes that Never Were
Lex was there during Wally's Rebirth.
Rebirth
He's been tracking the Chronal Debris and theorizing on it ever since.
Chronal Debris
Lex's Theory in the Back Matter of DDC #11
This explains how Lex can know about their existence besides no one else knowing. It also explains his newfound desire to be something different and think outside the box as he told Riddler in the Year of the Villain Riddler special and in his own:
Lex didn't want to spend another life fighting Superman like he always did.
"Okay, but how can this be BEFORE DDC? You still haven't proven that this can't be after it"
Which leads me to the next part. Final warning, Doomsday Clock #12 spoilers are in bound:
The reason why Doom War is most definitely before DDC is because the effects of it aren't there yet. They don't exist in the present and in the current timeline with no one remembering them.
As we see in 12, post DDC, they are fully back in the Metaverse history:
Remembered by Pa
Their existence and the public being aware is important for Clark to be confident enough to be Superboy and inspire the Legion to take him in from the future.
As you see in the big double page spread in the first part of this post, Clark knows them as well, and their current day roster includes:
Power Girl (not N52 Earth 2 PG, classic PG, last seen in a void between worlds in a Deathstroke Annual)
Obsidian
Cyclone
Stargirl
Atom Smasher
Michael Holt Mister Terrific
Jade
Both Wildcats (inculding a non Earth 2 Yolanda Montez)
Rick Tyler Hourman
Damage
Jesse Chambers
Beth Chapel Dr. Midnight
Jakeem Thunder
As you can see the roster includes modern heroes from JSA past. Some still existed in New 52 but in different teams and some didn't at all.
And if there's any doubt, here's Alan Scott talking to the media who knows the team's history:
Alan Scott
Speaking of history, look at what's new:
New History
I'm sure many of you know about the leaked DC timeline Didio presented recently. It included an interesting detail: Diana as a member of the JSA during WW2. Obviously this can't be true right now since the new origin from Rebirth is still true and there is no indication Diana is now a JSA member, because the JSA does not exist yet.
So yes, Doomsday Clock is ahead of Doom War and Year of the Villain, it is what will launch the new timeline which will feature 5G and its effects will be felt. Just not yet.
"But what about the Legion?! Bendis already has them exist. And he probably altered the ending of the book too."
First off, once again, I don't want to repeat myself and I do believe my old post dealt with the Legion very well so if you wish, you can check this out: https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/d9yryc/theory_doomsday_clockrebirth_connections_in/
As I said, the Legion's been foreshadowed to being erased since early when Bendis arrived and it doesn't look like Geoff and Gary changed anything for Bendis other than the Legion's costumes.
But as for how they exist before DDC. Let's look closer.
Bendis Legion
There are two ways to fix this:
This Legion was made after Superman Reborn and although they exist, their history with Clark does not
From their first meeting with Superman in Bendis' book, to the recent issue, they assert that Jon is the first and only Superboy they meet and take in as a member as he is the only Superboy in the current timeline and the one who inspired them. The leader of the United Planets does kind of ask if Superboy is Clark, but she could just simply not know that there is only 1 Superboy in this timeline and mentioned all she knew. She didn't even mention Conner who should be back by now.
So essentially, what happens in DDC is that the remnant of the old timeline that shouldn't exist, merges or becomes the new version so old history is added back.
Huh that sounds familiar. Oh right, that's exactly what happened in Superman Reborn. Post-Crisis Superman is a remnant of the previous timeline created by Convergence, but he should be the same as New 52 thanks to Metaverse rules so they merge and in doing so history is added back.
This makes the effect of DDC a compromise from making the Legion exist, to bringing back their history with Clark. We see this in a panel in DDC.
With Classic Legion Designs Too
Now this is an acceptable compromise. Remember that there also actually was a New 52 Legion that somehow coexisted with the Retroboot Legion (which wasn't wiped yet, likely another remnant). This Legion appeared in Morrison's New 52 AC run:
New 52 Legion
Wait so how is DDC even possible if so?
One big difference with this Legion is that when they met young Clark, they were disappointed (because he's an ordinary kid with powers and not Superboy), only visited him for one day, didn't bring him into the future itself and wiped his memory every time they meet him:
Gawky Caveman Kid? Ouch Imra
So in reality, DDC's change isn't a compromise. It technically always was just to restore Clark's history with them and as Superboy. Geoff just really simplified it in DDC itself.
2. The Timesteam Broken and Hypertime is whack
Alternatively however, from DDC we know the current New 52 timeline has no future. Jon couldn't see it.
"So?" you ask? Well that means any future timeline we see post Rebirth is in flux and is weirdly and loosely connected. It;s why the 25th century is unaffected by Flashpoint in Williamson's Flash and why Titans of Tomorrow is somehow not affected either until Future Tim realized time was now changeable. Why? Because these futures are not for the New 52.
This could explain why Thorn sees Pre-Flashpoint events in a museum in the future, even though she doesn't remember them as they didn't happen to her.
"I don't remember that being a thing"
Basically, time is in flux and Hypertime is broken. Which we know is true in Flash War and Hell Arisen reminds us.
This is a simpler answer but also a less interesting one IMO.
Finally, we have the Kents.
"It's good to see you."
There are two "problems" people bring up.
First is, for some reason some believed they might already be alive and that means DDC is past. Why?
in Bendis' run because of the tense Clark used when bringing up Ma, and when asked Bendis brought up DDC.
Conner says they're alive
Like I said before in the last post. Conner isn't from the current timeline and likely from Pre-Flashpoint. As for the first one, that's a very tiny detail in writing Bendis could've messed up and DDC was the only thing he could think of as an excuse. Why do I think that? It's the exact same thing he said on Twitter when asked why Barry had red hair in Superman (while admitting he's just lying and they just messed up in parentheses).
On the other hand, Clark's been through a lot lately. His biological dad coming to get his family, him dying, his child aged then leaving, him revealing his identity etc. Yet Clark never visits or thinks to even once.
So no. The Kents are still dead.
So what's the second?
People think that them being back will be quickly retconned and DDC will be meaningless as said by u/richjohnston in a bleeding cool article.
Well for the last time, DDC is set in the future just before the new timeline by Didio is made into canon, meaning until 5G,the Kents are still dead anyway.
Doomsday Clock is ahead of all books currently in continuity and it's impact will be met in full.
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